Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

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Thorsten
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Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by Thorsten » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:35 pm

While I understand opinions on the use of deadly force, I've just finished reading this excellent blog post (and comments from where I found it, a site run by a law professor) by an actual expert in self-defense law: https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/07/l ... e-trigger/
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ed21
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by ed21 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:15 am

Thanks for sharing the article. extremely intresting and how the law interprets things in a split second!
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by GlennSFX » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:24 am

Interesting article.
I expected once the threat motioned to retreat and appears to back off, the initial threat would have been deemed "ended". It will be interesting to see how this plays out in a civil case before a jury!
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Janik
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by Janik » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:57 pm

Thanks for the post. Good read. Since I wasn't there and in that situation, I can't say for certainty, but I assume I would not have taken the shot if the suspect was backing away from me. But again, not being there and knowing if there are other circumstances we don't know about, it could have been justified. I guess we will see if they indict or not.
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by Lgaam » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:54 pm

I stumbled across this via the Active Self Protection page. There are a lot of factors at play in this case and I'm interested in which way the State Attorney is going to go.
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ncjw
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by ncjw » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:59 pm

Besides the above, I found it interesting (and of course tragic) that after taking a shot to the chest at a few feet, the guy was able to walk back into the store. It goes to show that one round is not always enough if he had been armed and able to shoot back.
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Weapon
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by Weapon » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:44 am

ncjw wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:59 pm
Besides the above, I found it interesting (and of course tragic) that after taking a shot to the chest at a few feet, the guy was able to walk back into the store. It goes to show that one round is not always enough if he had been armed and able to shoot back.
I was involved in a case a few weeks ago where a guy took 4 hits to the torso from an AR-15 from about 15-20 yards. He was still up and moving for several minutes thereafter and actually survived it. (55gr FMJ sucks)

A few years ago, I was involved in another case where a guy took four rounds center mass (and two more in extremities) at virtually point blank range from a Glock 22 loaded with high performance JHP. He continued to try to kill the guy who shot him for several more minutes and then, when it finally dawned on him that he was seriously injured, he walked about 25 yards and collapsed and bled out before the ambulance arrived.

Stopping someone isn't that hard but stopping someone immediately is certainly not that easy. The only immediate or nearly immediate stop is massive trauma to the brain or near the top of the spinal cord.

In any event, that is a good article.
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by hoosiercodger » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:47 am

There was a case a few years ago, 2008 I believe. An officer named Tim Gramins got in a shootout with an armed robber. Gramins was armed with a Glock 21 .45 ACP with Speer Gold Dot 230 grain ammo. He fired 33 shots and scored 17 hits before the robber finally went down. These are the kind of incidents that has led the FBI to conclude that handgun stopping power is a myth and that the bullet used is more important that the caliber. When I was younger I bought a gun from an older lady who ran a gunshop downtown where I live and she told me very seriously that if you shoot a man in the little finger with a 45 it'll knock him down. No but you will probably blow off his finger. Ouch. If anyone has been watching the news the guy in the shooting that started all this has been arrested for manslaughter. The liberal press is calling him the "Stand Your Ground Shooter"
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by John_ » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:16 am

Weapon wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:44 am


I was involved in a case a few weeks ago where a guy took 4 hits to the torso from an AR-15 from about 15-20 yards. He was still up and moving for several minutes thereafter and actually survived it. (55gr FMJ sucks)

A few years ago, I was involved in another case where a guy took four rounds center mass (and two more in extremities) at virtually point blank range from a Glock 22 loaded with high performance JHP. He continued to try to kill the guy who shot him for several more minutes and then, when it finally dawned on him that he was seriously injured, he walked about 25 yards and collapsed and bled out before the ambulance arrived.

Stopping someone isn't that hard but stopping someone immediately is certainly not that easy. The only immediate or nearly immediate stop is massive trauma to the brain or near the top of the spinal cord.

In any event, that is a good article.
That's when you have a .450 Bushmaster AR15 rifle, or a 12 gauge pump loaded with slugs. No human walking takes a couple 12 gauge 1 oz foster slugs to the torso and continues to be a threat. I have the 16" 450 BM upper, but 50 Beo or 458 socom work well too.

And a low cost Maverick (Mossberg) 12 gauge pump with a FF3 8MOA mounted atop. 4 - 00 or slugs. Good low cost home protection, for even the drug crazed miscreants.
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by Weapon » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:05 am

The real shocker in the above cases that I failed to mention was that neither of them were on drug or alcohol according to blood tests in both. Being naturally crazy, jacked on adrenaline or incredibly well trained and determined can go a long way. (Insert the story of the superhuman Medal of Honor winner Roy Benavidez here)
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John_
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Re: Great post on law of self defense from a true expert

Post by John_ » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:10 am

Weapon wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:05 am
The real shocker in the above cases that I failed to mention was that neither of them were on drug or alcohol according to blood tests in both. Being naturally crazy, jacked on adrenaline or incredibly well trained and determined can go a long way. (Insert the story of the superhuman Medal of Honor winner Roy Benavidez here)
No doubt. The recipient of the MOH Trump awarded posthumously yesterday Sgt John Chapman took 10 hits on the battlefield before he succumbed to his wounds. He was mortally hit by 2 or 3 rounds, passed out, then regained consciousness and re-engaged the enemy til he was hit several times more. Sgt John Chapman is a warrior in every sense of the word. He sacrificed his life willingly to protect his brothers.
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